Comments on: Yup. We’re going there … The Obama-Dobson Quarrel [Updated] http://blog.followingchrist.org/2008/yup-were-going-there-the-obama-dobson-quarrel/ The (Un)official Blog of Following Christ 2008 Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:29:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Jeff http://blog.followingchrist.org/2008/yup-were-going-there-the-obama-dobson-quarrel/#comment-106 Jeff Sat, 02 Aug 2008 18:55:47 +0000 http://blog.followingchrist.org/?p=39#comment-106 Jon, thanks for your comment. In a pluralistic society, religious people should be free to enter the public square <i>as religious people</a>. That means, for Christians, taking positions on matters of morality and policy that are based upon Scripture. I didn't mean to suggest that Christians ought not to rely upon or even reference Scripture in public discourse. However, in a largely post-Christian context such references will not, of themselves, win the day. It will be ability to use the "universal" concepts of which Obama speaks. And it is interesting that he refers to universals, no? Unpack you parenthetical about Barth v. Bultmann v. Brunner? Jon, thanks for your comment. In a pluralistic society, religious people should be free to enter the public square as religious people. That means, for Christians, taking positions on matters of morality and policy that are based upon Scripture. I didn’t mean to suggest that Christians ought not to rely upon or even reference Scripture in public discourse. However, in a largely post-Christian context such references will not, of themselves, win the day. It will be ability to use the “universal” concepts of which Obama speaks. And it is interesting that he refers to universals, no?

Unpack you parenthetical about Barth v. Bultmann v. Brunner?

]]> By: Flourishing » [Letterman] Top Ten Reasons Obama is Over-Confident http://blog.followingchrist.org/2008/yup-were-going-there-the-obama-dobson-quarrel/#comment-103 Flourishing » [Letterman] Top Ten Reasons Obama is Over-Confident Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:08:59 +0000 http://blog.followingchrist.org/?p=39#comment-103 [...] delved a little into politics here at Flourishing. I wrote about James Dobson’s sort of unfair words about Barack Obama and his view of the Bible. We talked a little bit about the [...] [...] delved a little into politics here at Flourishing. I wrote about James Dobson’s sort of unfair words about Barack Obama and his view of the Bible. We talked a little bit about the [...]

]]> By: Jon Parker http://blog.followingchrist.org/2008/yup-were-going-there-the-obama-dobson-quarrel/#comment-87 Jon Parker Fri, 18 Jul 2008 19:08:41 +0000 http://blog.followingchrist.org/?p=39#comment-87 This is actually a really interesting point for discussion. I sort of agree with Obama and sort of don't. I actually think we have to do both - respond by appealing to natural law as well as by appealing to Scripture and Christian worldview values. Or said another way, we should try to translate our "reasons for our faith" ("with gentleness and respect") via general revelation AND yet also not be afraid to appeal to specific revelation. The reason for this "both and" is that if we simply (and only) appeal to natural law then we will have a society governed by only that which we can argue from general revelation which essentially means we will have a naturalistic society which carries a worldview and values system in itself (a la Alistair MacIntyre, After Virtue) that may not (and probably is not) capable of forming the kind of society we need. Civil gay marriage can be argued against based on an argument about redefining marriage as redefining families which in turn are building pieces of society, but unless I invoke and VOTE according to the deeper revelation I believe (apart from evidence or "reason") about gender, sex, and family, I will probably not bring that redemptive "lift" to the culture that I seek. This is not to say that Obama (and whoever posted this post) aren't correct to call out people who don't seem to even BOTHER arguing their point to the broader world - poor evangelists and apologists indeed (Did Wilberforce only say, "Read your bible and you'll see that I'm right"?). But I think we must still vote our beliefs or else we are not really participating in the culture the way we should I think. (BTW, isn't there a kind of Barth vs. Bultmann vs. Brunner tension going on in this whole thing? What do you think?) This is actually a really interesting point for discussion. I sort of agree with Obama and sort of don’t. I actually think we have to do both - respond by appealing to natural law as well as by appealing to Scripture and Christian worldview values. Or said another way, we should try to translate our “reasons for our faith” (”with gentleness and respect”) via general revelation AND yet also not be afraid to appeal to specific revelation.
The reason for this “both and” is that if we simply (and only) appeal to natural law then we will have a society governed by only that which we can argue from general revelation which essentially means we will have a naturalistic society which carries a worldview and values system in itself (a la Alistair MacIntyre, After Virtue) that may not (and probably is not) capable of forming the kind of society we need. Civil gay marriage can be argued against based on an argument about redefining marriage as redefining families which in turn are building pieces of society, but unless I invoke and VOTE according to the deeper revelation I believe (apart from evidence or “reason”) about gender, sex, and family, I will probably not bring that redemptive “lift” to the culture that I seek.
This is not to say that Obama (and whoever posted this post) aren’t correct to call out people who don’t seem to even BOTHER arguing their point to the broader world - poor evangelists and apologists indeed (Did Wilberforce only say, “Read your bible and you’ll see that I’m right”?). But I think we must still vote our beliefs or else we are not really participating in the culture the way we should I think.
(BTW, isn’t there a kind of Barth vs. Bultmann vs. Brunner tension going on in this whole thing? What do you think?)

]]> By: Dobson and Obama « The Two Tasks… http://blog.followingchrist.org/2008/yup-were-going-there-the-obama-dobson-quarrel/#comment-65 Dobson and Obama « The Two Tasks… Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:17:55 +0000 http://blog.followingchrist.org/?p=39#comment-65 [...] Dobson and Obama Posted on June 25, 2008 by jg75 See some of my thoughts on this very public quarrel here. [...] [...] Dobson and Obama Posted on June 25, 2008 by jg75 See some of my thoughts on this very public quarrel here. [...]

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